Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Fri Aug 15, 2025 9:53 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:01 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:55 pm
Posts: 3820
Location: Taiwan
First name: Tai
Last Name: Fu
City: Taipei
Country: Taiwan
Focus: Repair
Status: Semi-pro
On many occasion I have done setup for a customer that was perfect on the spot, but then he'd come back later on telling me there's a buzz on the E string or something.

Is there a way to do a good set up on the spot and not have it suddenly become a buzz machine later on? It seems to vary by guitar... some guitars hold their setup well but some just do not... and it's tiring to try to anticipate it.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:35 pm 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 13666
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
City: Ann Arbor
State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
For our business it's impossible to discuss and understand setting up a guitar in isolation without also considering the specific client and their preferences, playing style and at times what they tend to play too.

Sure there are lots of specs out here for generic set-ups on say new Martins where for a dread*ught we might see 4/64ths" for the high e and 6/64ths" for the low e. That is of course if the instrument is strung with lights. For a similar instrument strung with mediums 5 and 7 (64ths at the 12th) are a better generic idea especially if the instrument may land in the hands of a blue grasser.

Folks who work for music stores tend to be well versed, er.... at least they should be in setting up a guitar to a generic spec. Folks who provide service to the public especially when one has semi-pro or pro player clients most of the time have to know that the player's style, music type, attack, etc. are key to knowing and understanding in order to do a great set-up for them.

I'll add that I never did commission work refusing to sell futures with no insult intended for those who do do commission work. But this knowing your client's playing styles, skill, music, etc would seem to me to be even more important for those building a commission for a specific client.

Today one of our regulars brought me a recent Martin EC with a nice brown burst that I had set-up up for him last year at this time. He told me to do what it needs and he had no complaints. The set-up remains perfect and had not moved at all so I simply inspected, cleaned up the ax, put some new EC Martin strings on it in his favorite gauge and everyone was happy.

So is there a way to do a great set-up and have it remain that way with the client completely blown away happy? Sure, if you don't know your clients well and how they play ask them to play something for you - I do this frequently and can enjoy it too most of the time.... This gives you insight into their attack, type of music played, etc which are all very important things when going for something better than a generic set-up and complete client satisfaction.

On rare occasion it is possible to have an instrument that is still moving in terms of less than well seasoned wood and/or huge RH swings in the respective part of the world. Although a problematic instrument made with green wood or built in an RH that is not similar to where the instrument found a home will likely continue to be uppty for a long time we can minimize the impact on the client by understanding their own specific requirements and addressing it in the set-up.

Regarding anticipating changes we know that domes rise in the spring, summer and fall and fall in the winters in climates where one has a real winter. Multiple saddles and the advice that this may be needed are one way to equip your client for such an eventuality while at the same time getting some business making that saddle. The client can swap out saddles themselves during a string change and be happy as a clam all winter. IIRC Mario ships with two saddles.

Some years ago when I was doing work for a music store a client was picking up their new Epiphone Dotish type ax and had a question so we got called down to deal with him. He wanted to know if the guitar was supposed to buzz like this. We asked like what? He proceeded to take the low e string and pull it out away from the guitar about 2" and then let it go. Now not everyone is going to have a Robin Hood fetish but what was telling about this guy was that he had never played guitar before.... So we asked if he was a new player and he said that he was and was on his way to his very first ever lesson. We replied that the way to make the guitar stop buzzing like "that" was to never, never play Robin hood with it and be sure to ask his new instructor how to properly pluck a string...

So there is that too, some clients experience buzzing for a plethora of reasons ranging from inexperience to a host of other reasons. Interestingly though in my world it seems that most of my clients who record, play out, are well known etc. prefer higher action.

So yeah there is a way to do a great set-up and have it stay that way and this always, in my view, includes never seeing the instrument in isolation but always remembering that it belongs to someone and is their tool to make music with. As such how they play, what they play, perhaps even too where they play can impact how happy that they may be with your set-up work.

Never be afraid to ask a client to play for you either, they are frequently flattered and I frequently learn new songs from this too.... Everyone wins...

Hope this helps.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:59 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:42 am
Posts: 1584
Location: United States
I used to think that it did not matter where you fret a string. I thought the frets were there so you did not have to bother where you put your finger. This is not true. Some of your problem could be with the client's technique, but that is not a fight you want to get into.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 7:30 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:21 pm
Posts: 3446
Location: Alexandria MN
What to you usually find as the cause of the buzz Tai? Is it fretted or open strings? Some nuts can be on the soft side and if the slots are taken down to low action right away they can "bed in" over time and be too low.

_________________
It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:23 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:34 pm
Posts: 1097
First name: Bob
Last Name: Russell
State: Michigan USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Semi-pro
Tai ,
Knowing that you are in Taiwan I would say the first thing to consider is humidity. I know that you get big swings in humidity so I would suggest you make sure you recommend to all of your clients that they must keep the humidity around 45%. That probably means they need to keep their guitars in a controlled environment, either by keeping a fresh Silica Gel Dehumidifying pack in the case or keeping it in air conditioning/heat controlled room.

Temperature can also have an effect but not nearly as much as humidity.

I have found this is the main reason a setup won't stay and It is usually something I discuss with all of my clients. Living here in Michigan we have dramatic swings from season to season so it is especially important here.

Bob

Cheers,
Bob


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: mikeyb2 and 21 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com